# Lon, lat not included in starnote note **URL:** \ **Category:** Notecard API\ **Created:** [April 30, 2025, 12:37pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017 "2025-04-30T12:37:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gauteh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/gauteh/32/269_2.png) [@gauteh](https://discuss.blues.com/u/gauteh)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 12:37pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/1 "2025-04-30T12:37:35Z")
Hi, I’ve gotten starnote to work, but it doesn’t seem to send the special \_lon \_lat fields.. ? It does send payload + other fields I have. Would this happen if it doesn’t have a position? ```auto { "event": "537cd023-e287-848d-ad6d-45846c593be1", "when": 1746016095, "file": "spec.qo", "body": { "max": 0.0022602081, "timestamp": 1577837130366 }, "payload": "//9XXNBVnDoGLqUyJx1sDsARHxJBE6EUmhTEEJ4LPgp4B9kHpwo1CJsFMQTwAvMDEwRIAtMB/wE6AgkCjgFaASsBOQFNAWgBTAFQAakBngFEAVgBxQAGAYwBhAGoAXQB6QCnAJgAgwCJAMwA7wDOAKEAeQBnAIkAmACOAGsAXQBqAGEARABOAFIAdAB7AHoAcACFAEcAOgAxAC8AUwBUAEcARgAyAA==", "transport": "ntn:skylo", "best_id": "STAR01", "device": "dev:860264054655247", "sn": "STAR01", "product": "product:no.met.gauteh:sfy", "app": "app:4c5e935c-7acb-4f20-bca0-cda95e9fd1d2", "received": 1746016211.941448, "req": "note.add", "status": "success", "fleets": [ "fleet:22ad4e5e-43e3-4499-ad02-eaec0c2938c0" ] } ``` ---
**Author:** ![RobLauer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/roblauer/32/1567_2.png) [@RobLauer](https://discuss.blues.com/u/RobLauer)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 1:48pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/2 "2025-04-30T13:48:31Z")
Hi @gauteh, By default, compact templates omit certain metadata fields to preserve bandwidth. You can restore lat, lon, and timestamps by [following these instructions](https://dev.blues.io/notecard/notecard-walkthrough/low-bandwidth-design/#creating-compact-templates). Just note that when you update a template, you also have to sync it again with Notehub over cell/wifi before using ntn mode again. Thanks, Rob ---
**Author:** ![gauteh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/gauteh/32/269_2.png) [@gauteh](https://discuss.blues.com/u/gauteh)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 2:22pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/3 "2025-04-30T14:22:04Z")
Yes. That’s what I did, but they are not included. Two other things which are not consistent with docs: 1. track.qo notes are synced over ntn 2. Adding regular notes to the notecard doesn’t work when it is in ntn mode. Presumably this will start working when it next time gets a cell connection? How long before it retries cellular after having fallen back to ntn? ---
**Author:** ![RobLauer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/roblauer/32/1567_2.png) [@RobLauer](https://discuss.blues.com/u/RobLauer)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 5:53pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/4 "2025-04-30T17:53:06Z")
> Yes. That’s what I did, but they are not included. Got it - and yes I think you were on the right track initially as if there is no location data available, it will be omitted from the response. > track.qo notes are synced over ntn I believe this is by design as the \_track.qo Notefiles should be synced the same way over ntn vs other transport options. > Adding regular notes to the notecard doesn’t work when it is in ntn mode. Presumably this will start working when it next time gets a cell connection? Correct. It gets a little more complicated if you are using the `"delete":true` argument in your templates, which will clear queues automatically as [documented here](https://dev.blues.io/starnote/starnote-best-practices/#define-ntn-vs-non-ntn-templates). > How long before it retries cellular after having fallen back to ntn? I believe the default is 60 mins, but can be overridden with card.transport/seconds argument (not currently documented). ---
**Author:** ![gauteh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/gauteh/32/269_2.png) [@gauteh](https://discuss.blues.com/u/gauteh)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 6:06pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/5 "2025-04-30T18:06:44Z")
Sounds good, this suits my use case pretty well. I don’t need the \_lon, \_lat fields if \_track.qo is still synced (they will most likely just be copies of the latest \_track.qo anyway). ---
**Author:** ![gauteh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/gauteh/32/269_2.png) [@gauteh](https://discuss.blues.com/u/gauteh)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2025, 12:39pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/6 "2025-05-05T12:39:09Z")
Why isn’t location information included in this \_track.qo file synced over starnote: ```auto { "event": "b8b070d2-f86f-89b7-a72b-626c41bc0eeb", "when": 1746441552, "file": "_track.qo", "body": { "status": "heartbeat", "temperature": 15.0625, "voltage": 4.5429688 }, "transport": "ntn:skylo", "best_id": "STAR01", "device": "dev:860264054655247", "sn": "STAR01", "product": "product:no.met.gauteh:sfy", "app": "app:4c5e935c-7acb-4f20-bca0-cda95e9fd1d2", "received": 1746442026.880456, "req": "note.add", "status": "success", "fleets": [ "fleet:22ad4e5e-43e3-4499-ad02-eaec0c2938c0" ] } ``` ---
**Author:** ![RobLauer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/roblauer/32/1567_2.png) [@RobLauer](https://discuss.blues.com/u/RobLauer)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2025, 2:06pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/7 "2025-05-05T14:06:26Z")
Hi @gauteh, What are your `card.location.mode` settings? I just tested these configs out on my Starnote and I do see GPS location data appear in both regular \_track.qo Notes and in the heartbeats: ```auto {"req":"card.location.mode","mode":"periodic","seconds":300} {"req":"card.location.track","start":true,"sync":true,"heartbeat":true,"hours":-10} ``` ```auto { "event": "f1afd4f2-4a28-81fa-960c-e95149529bd3", "when": 1746453566, "file": "_track.qo", "body": { "jcount": 1, "journey": 1746453566, "status": "heartbeat", "temperature": 26.75, "time": 1746453527, "usb": true, "voltage": 3.9257812 }, "transport": "ntn:skylo", "best_id": "Sat Tester", "device": "dev:xxxxxxxxxxx", "sn": "Sat Tester", "product": "product:com.xxxxxxxxxx", "app": "app:a3d85b64-cded-465b-a0da-da01896af440", "received": 1746453620.524681, "req": "note.add", "best_location_type": "gps", "best_location_when": 1746453527, "best_lat": xxxxx, "best_lon": xxxx, "best_location": "xxxxx", "best_country": "US", "best_timezone": "America/Chicago", "where_olc": "86MG3HC8+FW8J", "where_when": 1746453527, "where_lat": xxxxx, "where_lon": xxxxxx, "where_location": "xxxxxx", "where_country": "US", "where_timezone": "America/Chicago", "fleets": [ "fleet:0908ac06-b4be-4963-94be-8b6d2795bdcc" ] } ``` ---
**Author:** ![gauteh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/gauteh/32/269_2.png) [@gauteh](https://discuss.blues.com/u/gauteh)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2025, 2:34pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/8 "2025-05-05T14:34:32Z")
I think I have two hours on both heartbeat and period. Why would there ever be a track qo without gps? Especially on starnote. ---
**Author:** ![RobLauer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/roblauer/32/1567_2.png) [@RobLauer](https://discuss.blues.com/u/RobLauer)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2025, 2:51pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/9 "2025-05-05T14:51:15Z")
Are you using the GPS on the Starnote or on the Notecard (GPS on Starnote is the default)? Are you able to get a GPS fix separately (e.g. looking at the response from a `card.location` request)? Rob ---
**Author:** ![gauteh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/gauteh/32/269_2.png) [@gauteh](https://discuss.blues.com/u/gauteh)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2025, 3:15pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/10 "2025-05-05T15:15:10Z")
I have a starnote with onboard gps antenna. Have antenna on regular notecard as well, and have not done any additional configuration with regards to that. ---
**Author:** ![RobLauer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/roblauer/32/1567_2.png) [@RobLauer](https://discuss.blues.com/u/RobLauer)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2025, 5:48pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/11 "2025-05-05T17:48:42Z")
I’d be curious to see if there is any difference if you switched to using the Notecard’s GPS by issuing an ntn.gps/on:true request: > **[ntn Requests - API Reference - Blues Developers](https://dev.blues.io/api-reference/notecard-api/ntn-requests/latest/#ntn-gps)** > > Use a compatible Notecard to interface with a paired Starnote device for NTN (satellite) communications. ---
**Author:** ![gauteh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/gauteh/32/269_2.png) [@gauteh](https://discuss.blues.com/u/gauteh)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2025, 6:29pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/12 "2025-05-05T18:29:12Z")
I’ll try that. Wondering if this is related to my other gps issue. Maybe a consequence of unfavorable configuration options. ---
**Author:** ![gauteh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/gauteh/32/269_2.png) [@gauteh](https://discuss.blues.com/u/gauteh)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 10:24am UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/13 "2025-05-07T10:24:46Z")
No gps yet in default mode (in track.qo), but the assigned location is all over the place: ![Screenshot_20250507-122316](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/uploads/blues/original/2X/3/375373ae519fd6b0e79fca5d3e833ccd9847b635.png) ---
**Author:** ![RobLauer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/roblauer/32/1567_2.png) [@RobLauer](https://discuss.blues.com/u/RobLauer)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 6:11pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/14 "2025-05-07T18:11:16Z")
@gauteh is the location you’re seeing here before or after you ran ntn.gps/on:true? Can you invite me to your Notehub project so I can see some of the event details (you should have my email address I believe). ---
**Author:** ![gauteh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/gauteh/32/269_2.png) [@gauteh](https://discuss.blues.com/u/gauteh)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 8:35pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/15 "2025-05-07T20:35:30Z")
Hi, I haven’t tested ntn.gps on true yet. I’ve invited you to the project. I also get some messages which should have a body, but they only have a payload. And the value of the max field is sometimes negative, which should be impossible.. ---
**Author:** ![RobLauer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/roblauer/32/1567_2.png) [@RobLauer](https://discuss.blues.com/u/RobLauer)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 8:48pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/16 "2025-05-07T20:48:36Z")
I would try updating to the 9.1.1 firmware release, as that fixed a critical issue with the ntn.gps API among other issues. Looking at some of the events, I’m primarily concerned about the timestamps. They are all over the place and the only one that is correct is the one that’s in the `body`. Out of curiosity can you send a `card.time` request to see what it returns? FYI you’re also sending a lot of data with Starnote when you send those large payloads as well. The max size of a Note when sending over ntn mode is 256 bytes and I wonder if we are uncovering an issue here with sending a large payload. Can you also send me your template definitions you’re using? Rob ---
**Author:** ![gauteh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/gauteh/32/269_2.png) [@gauteh](https://discuss.blues.com/u/gauteh)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 9:10pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/17 "2025-05-07T21:10:48Z")
The one in the body is using rtc on my host MCU, set from a card.time request. I noticed a small error in my body timestamp, but it should only be a few 100 ms off. I’ll send more details and upgrade tomorrow. I’ve calculated the payload length from the return value of the template call. Then the bytes field in the json, or possibly from a note.add call (don’t remember where I found that field). ---
**Author:** ![gauteh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/gauteh/32/269_2.png) [@gauteh](https://discuss.blues.com/u/gauteh)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 9:40am UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/18 "2025-05-08T09:40:22Z")
I’ve updated the firmware, and set ntn.gps on true. The latest track qo events are synced over cell, but there should be some new ones over ntn in a couple of hours. ---
**Author:** ![gauteh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/gauteh/32/269_2.png) [@gauteh](https://discuss.blues.com/u/gauteh)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 8:07am UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/19 "2025-05-09T08:07:19Z")
> [@RobLauer](#): > > > Adding regular notes to the notecard doesn’t work when it is in ntn mode. Presumably this will start working when it next time gets a cell connection? > > Correct. It gets a little more complicated if you are using the `"delete":true` argument in your templates, which will clear queues automatically as [documented here](https://dev.blues.io/starnote/starnote-best-practices/#define-ntn-vs-non-ntn-templates). It seems that I may miss _compact_ notes some times as well in NTN mode, there is sometimes about one missing per sync. Could there be any issue with adding _compact_ notes when NTN syncing is in progress? I’ve changed my code to retry adding notes on failure forever now (used to have 2 tries then drop, in case there was some error that would cause a particular note to always fail end get things stuck). ![s_timestamps](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/uploads/blues/original/2X/5/589248bd132d4eae29e428a1370437e2e27ad9d8.png) Packages are marked with red dots, so time is correct, but there is missing packages now and then. There should be one approximately every 20 minutes. Are they re-tried if they somehow fail to be sent? ---
**Author:** ![RobLauer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/discuss.blues.com/roblauer/32/1567_2.png) [@RobLauer](https://discuss.blues.com/u/RobLauer)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 2:42pm UTC](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017/20 "2025-05-09T14:42:06Z")
Notes will be retried if there is a known communications failure. However, we are looking into an issue where large `payload` arguments are disrupting NTN communications. Some of your Notes have relatively large `payload` args and if they eclipse the 256 byte max that Skylo allows they may be lost. This is the first thing I would look at (while we concurrently diagnose this issue in Notecard firmware). [Next page](https://discuss.blues.com/t/lon-lat-not-included-in-starnote-note/3017.md?page=2)